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Help me find this Cicero quote

ac — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:57:45 -0800

Can anyone help me track down this Cicero quote? I believe it is in a letter, to his son (?), saying something along the lines of: science is great and all, but why study the course of the stars when you don't know what's in your own soul first? I heard this referred to by Rufus Fears on this or this but I can't for the life of me find it on Google. I trust that he wasn't just making it up, or so liberal in his re-telling that it's impossible to find. Thank you, hive mind!

The Baha'i Religion - Am I missing anything?

unixrat — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 10:22:25 -0800

I have spent the past two years doing on-again, off-again research into the Baha'i religion. I really like what I see - I'm on the verge of conversion. There is one problem - something that's nagging at the corners of my mind: Why isn't this religion more popular? Is there something that I'm missing that everyone else is seeing? This is a bit of the Wisdom of Crowds mentality, but I have this mental image of a fork in the road with a heavily traveled path on one side and a deer path on the other.

I'm not afraid of going my own way, I'm just looking for a little reassurance that I'm not blind to some obvious problem.

The people I've spoken to have been very nice, the books that I have read have seemed pretty thorough, and I've read all the criticism that I can get my hands on. Yet, the sheer anonymity of it leaves me a bit bewildered.

Help?

What's the current state of thought regarding symbolism within psychological analysis?

humblepigeon — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 05:09:50 -0800

What's the current state of thought regarding symbolism within psychological analysis (ie Freud and Jung)? I have only a slight knowledge of psychology, but I understand that both Freud and Jung have been widely discredited. Has there been any advances in symbolistic psychology since Freud and Jung's time? Is it still considered a valid tool with which to analyse the human mind and, in a wider context, the workings of the world? As you might be able to guess, I'm approaching this from the angle of critical theory but it all comes from a psychological root that was once highly regarded and I'm interested in understanding the validity or otherwise of it nowadays.

animals in the old testament

low affect — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:26:13 -0800

Where in the Old Testament can I find some mention of laws about the treatment of animals. I know there were all kinds of laws about animals; what to eat, what makes a suitable sacrifice, etc... I'm looking for anything about requirements during the raising of livestock. And I guess during the slaughter; Actually any laws about animals.
I know about the Kosher stuff, but is that in the actual Bible, or some other source?

If you can think of specific verses off the top of your head, great, but just pointing me to somewhere good to look for this stuff would be really helpful. Right now my google is failing me.

Help me become the best atheist chaplain I can be.

internet!Hannah — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:27:08 -0800

Help me become the best atheist chaplain I can be. I'm in the ROTC at my University, and as a cadet master sergeant this year, I've somewhat taken it upon myself to assume the unofficial role of "atheist chaplain" for the Corps. There's no official position for this, though I'm told there was once an actual Atheist Chaplain some years ago (however, it seems to have been done more as a protest than anything, which has engendered some resentment for getting the position reinstated), but I've found myself filling the vacuum anyways.

The Corps has ~2,000 cadets. I've started in my major unit (one of 9 units) by getting the names of the atheist and agnostic freshmen cadets (as well as a deist and a neo-pagan), and I took 5 of them with me to the school's Agnostic and Atheist Student Group, which was a hit both with the freshmen and the organization. My current plans include trying to get all of the irreligious freshmen in the Corps to attend these meetings with me, pending cooperation with the Corps-wide Chaplain on just who those freshmen are. The AASG is a debate group that discusses such topics as morality without religion and so forth, and is actually a really fun group, so I'm definately going to be pushing it for these cadets.

However, since we're in a very conservative, religious university in Texas, these freshmen are getting inundated with religious pressure, and I want to expand my help to include something that passes as more of a alternative to all of the bible studies and prayer sessions they're constantly getting offered. (To get an idea of the atmosphere I'm talking about, we freethinkers sit through a mimimum of two prayers a day at morning and evening chow, and every speaker for every event feels the need to quote half of the bible. It does get a little old.)

I'm short on ideas of what all I can do for the freshmen, though. I've been thinking along the lines of having some group relaxed dinners (alternative to chow) so that they can get to know one another and realize they aren't alone, which would also let me keep tabs on if any are getting any harassment within their outfits (though in my experience, 95% of the reaction I got was, if not positive, then at least no worse than good-natured ribbing. Then again, I also know the Bible better than just about anyone else in my unit, which is a great defense against the conversion-minded).

What else could I be doing for them? I have a pretty good selection of Sagan and Dawkins and so forth, so I guess I could do either a borrow-a-book or book study thing, if there's any interest. Or maybe once monthly meetings about stuff like what it's like to be an atheist in the military (though not all are military bound)? There is an obnoxious attitude of "no atheists in foxholes" that I find offensive and I would like to try and counter.

So, please, does anyone have any suggestions? The normal chaplain types do bible studies, devotionals, church carpooling, BBQs, and general counseling, and nontheistic equivalents would be welcomed.

Please note, I am not trying to make waves with anyone. I will not be challenging prayers, or attacking the current chaplain system, so please don't make suggestions that would just create resentment for atheists.

I'm going to be fasting for Ramadan for the first time. Where do I start?

parkbench — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:12:08 -0800

I'm going to be fasting for Ramadan for the first time. Where do I start? I am not a Muslim, but I do not want to get into that in this question. Please humor me and do not tell me how much or how little I am missing the point of Ramadan, I would just like ceremonial instruction.

I have already been reading the Qur'an and different histories of Islam for a little while now--so I've got the 'edification' part down. I'm just wondering ritualistically what I'm supposed to do.

I know I will have to wake up before dawn to eat a light meal (what does this entail exactly?), and then fast until sunset/dusk (depending on Sunni/Shia...I think I'm going to stick with the former because it's more mainstream). Then I think there's some kind of small meal after each day's fast including dates and water.

Outside of that I have no idea. Is this the main thrust of it, besides any special days in the month? Are there any special days in the month that I should be aware of?

Because I will not be praying in any way I guess I'm cutting out a large portion of what I might occupy my time with. Of course I will try to be a Good Person (tm). But still--I am looking for little things I might have missed. I like the little detail of dates and water after a day's fast--are there other little ineffable experiences of Ramadan that I can approximate, however sloppily, on my own? That is to say, is there some thing that kids always do, or a place where people tend to congregate, or a particular item that tends to go on sale during Ramadan that I should keep my eye out for?

Essentially: I will be at school in Massachusetts and I will stick to it as vigorously as I can, though if I have a cigarette in the morning I do not think I will feel that I have transgressed. I am primarily doing this to put my feet in someone else's shoes.

(bonus question: fictional and non-fictional first-person accounts of Ramadan would be welcome)

Please help me stand up straight, make a new plan, and dive in again.

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:29:27 -0800

I have never had to try very hard, and yet I've usually succeeded. Until now. How do I become better at dealing with failure? Bit of background:

As a child, I was a quick learner. I was invited into a gifted program but didn't go, so I was a high academic and extra-curricular achiever in a series of average schools. When I entered the work force, I was well-rounded, confident, and generally seen as an up-and-comer in my field. Pretty much everything I've ever tried to do came easy, from academics to sports to career. Lucky me.

I got cocky.

I'm 30 now. I'm switching fields. My new area of interest is much more competitive, with a higher proportion of really skilled, creative, and interesting people. I'm new at it, I'm a little intimidated, and I'm not the impressive young one anymore. I'm starting to fail. I'm not used to failure. Wow, it sucks. Good stuff is still happening: I landed some contracts I'm proud of, and had some successes at work. My life is far from bad, and I know it. But in the past two years, I have put a concerted and genuine effort into a handful of potentially life-changing things, and I have not succeeded at any of them.

Looking back, I can see some reasons why things didn't work out, and I usually try to post-mortem my efforts and learn from my mistakes. But in these cases, I didn't necessarily make mistakes; sometimes I just didn't make the cut because other people were better. Ouch. I can feel the wind leaving my sails. Each time, it gets harder and harder to really commit to attempting the next big thing, which of course is a vicious cycle.

Just as an example, I'll be more detailed about most recent "failure", although I'm asking for suggestions to apply to my world view more than to any particular incident. I assembled a team and we spent several months making a labor-intensive pitch for a labor-intensive project. I just found out that our pitch was rejected. I still think the idea has merit, and I know we can do it independently of the company we pitched to. This will mean deferring the project, running around to find some capital, working with less support and without prestigious backers attached, and paying everyone less than than we originally planned. I don't mind doing all that- it's essentially "my" project, and I'm okay with working hard for little reward because I care about it. But I can't do this project without other people, and I hate the idea of proposing a cut-rate version to everyone else. I feel discouraged and embarrassed about the whole thing, and I want nothing more than to just forget about it, even though I know it's a viable idea with genuine merit. I should suck it up and just do it a different way. But I'm very discouraged.

So I'm seeking advice on how to improve my outlook for future endeavors. How do I get over big failures and psych myself up for the next attempt? How do I stay confident when I tried my best but my best wasn't good enough?
For anonymous correspondence, I'm at GetBackOnTheHorse@gmail.com. Thank you in advance.

Religion, the non-believer and worthwhile relationships.

roooooot — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:38:17 -0800

Myself: atheist. SO: Lutheran. Not too long ago she sent me an email to say that at some point in the future she would like to talk about the religious card and its possible effect on our relationship. Any thoughts on how to approach this? Hints have been dropped here and there at her wanting to finally discuss this. Just some quick background. While I am quite content with my atheism, I realize that religion is very important to people. I have no urge to discount people's religious beliefs, I just have no desire/need for it to be part of my life. I find the whole topic fascinating, and at one point in my life I had some serious debate about pursuing more formal education in religion studies when I was in university.

She comes from an averagely religious upbringing. She doesn't really attend church regularly, isn't preachy on any religious subject and until now there hasn't been any proselytizing on her part, and I don't really view this as an outward attempt she just has some extremely-valid-to-her concerns on loved ones and the afterlife.

There aren't any ultimatums or anything on the subject (that I'm aware of), I'd just rather not have this turn into some big ugly mess. This is one of the few relationships in my life where I'd like to maintain it for a long time to come, and I'd rather this not be a dealbreaker, but I am thinking that depends on my handling of it all.

Anyone have any experience dealing with this topic?

More info: I just turned 30, college dropout, creative professional, love video games, a DJing music snob, love reading everything from Lovecraft to Satre, to Bukowski to layman quantum physics books. She loves dance, 4th year of university, loves reading fashion magazines and listening to top 40 pop music. We have been living together for a while now, and more or less been dating for about a year. Admittedly the whole thing began as a series of drunken hook-ups and along the way we discovered a pretty serious compatibility.

We have a world of differences between us and it works.

Can you recommend some Good Books for my dad?

Metroid Baby — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:02:56 -0800

My dad recently read The Shack and really liked it. Can you recommend other books with a spiritual leaning (not necessarily Christian) that he might also like? A bit of background: Metroid Dad lost both his father and his younger brother earlier in the year, and for the past several months he's been fighting an uphill battle with cancer. We're not sure how much time he's got left, but he's been in remarkably good spirits.

As might be expected in this situation, Dad's been waxing a bit ontological lately. Give him a free ear and he'll talk to you about his thoughts on God and the afterlife, on relationships and love and how we'll all meet again. He prefaces a lot of this with "I'm not sure how, but I believe…" or "Now, I don't go to church that much…" or "I know this might sound kinda flaky, but…" In other words, he's not dogmatic or judgmental, but appears to be approaching these questions with gentleness and an open mind. He was raised Protestant, but believes that all religions are really working towards the same thing and concedes that religion doesn't have to be a central part of anyone's life.

He read The Shack a month or two ago and, though he thought parts were kind of lame, on the whole it really spoke to him. Really, a whole lot. (I read it at his urging, and my reaction was more "hmm, okay.")

Given all of the above, I'd really like to find more reading material in a similar vein – stuff that might also speak to him, comfort him, or get him thinking. Fiction, nonfiction, religious texts, any or all of the above. Doesn't have to be Christian, doesn't necessarily have to have religion or God or spirituality as the main focus. I'd like stuff that’s intelligent but accessible (and readable while in the hospital and woozy), so nothing too dry or too schlocky. And I'd like to avoid proselytizing, Kool-Aid, and scary REPENT SINNERS!!!1! type stuff.

He loved the history books I got him for Christmas at your recommendations, and I'm hoping you guys will have some good ideas yet again.

(I doubt it'll be an issue, but just in case: please, no hurf durf Shack reader or hurf durf God believer here. Dad's not reading this thread, and I'm not going to engage him in any metaphysical arguments, so there's not really any point in it. He'd respect your beliefs, so please respect his.)

Thank you in advance, as always.

Different types of therapy

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:18:03 -0800

Different types of therapy Can anyone recommend/explain different types of therapy? I have been to some sessions with a shrink, and i kind of found his comments incinderary, like he would make things out worse than they were, and I kind of used those comments to drive myself deeper into a bit of despair. I did one or 2 sessions with a pschycologist, and she was just a sympathizer "That must have been pretty hard." I didn't find this helpful, either. I suppose I am looking for someone to help lead me to better places, and that is not what I experienced with these 2. I think for most people their friends serve this function; I feel like i've been a little depressed for a number of years now, and hence my friends have moved on, and I haven't really made good new ones. So I don't have that to turn to at the moment. I do not have a minister or faith, and anyway I feel like it would have to be someone you knew well and trusted. I met someone I really liked (romantically) a year ago, and it didn't turn out, in part because of my depression or whatever you want to call it, though he didn't verbalize this. Anyway I find myself fantasizing about "what could have been had I been healthier." I know that's not good per se, I am just saying I saw something really good in/with him that I wasn't able to achieve, and know that my current mental state is partly to blame.

So, in short: what kind of therapist is best to help you see reality, i.e. beyond your petty concerns, limits, self-involvement, NOT drive you deeper into them by reciting from some textbook or getting all Freudian. Thanks.

Adult baptism gift

Hugh2d2 — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:21:16 -0800

My wife is getting baptized into her new church this weekend. I'm an apathetic atheist, but I want to get her something meaningful to commemorate the next step in her journey and I need ideas.

It's one of those progressive christian churches (rock music, video screens, etc.) if that makes a difference.

What should I get her?

Please help me identify this diagram.

OlivesAndTurkishCoffee — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:44:09 -0800

Please help me identify this diagram. It is a Chinese or Taoist diagram for change. I copied this out of a book a few years ago, but for some reason didn't note the source. It may have been called/captioned "Chinese (or maybe Taoist) Diagram for Change". I was reading a lot of Alan Watts and Fritjof Capra at the time, but neither of those leads have turned anything up.

ReligionBookfilter: History of Protestant Christianity for a Lapsed Catholic?

kandinski — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:38:38 -0800

Help me find a book that explains the taxonomy of Christian churches and sects! Although I am an atheist I was brought up Catholic, so I have a good grasp of some finer points of religious belief and practice in the Church of Rome. However, I now realise that in the anglosaxon world, "Christian" means mostly "Protestant of some description or other", at least in the most statistical sense. So I would like to read up on the history and differences of the various Protestant Christian sects.

I more or less understand what the Anglican Church is about, and can rattle on a string of names of other churches: Episcopalian, Lutheran, Calvinist, Hanseatic, Methodist, Baptist, Unitarian, Evangelical... I also understand the Church of Latter Day Saints, the Jehova's Witnesses and even the Salvation Army espouse and practice some brand of Christianity or other.

But in general those words they are just names. Like the station names in a subway map of a city I have never visited, they have some evoking power, but I am completely ignorant of where they take one to. And I don't feel like church hopping just now. Thus...

I am looking for a reference, a book I can read. Just one, preferably with a good bibliography so I can delve deeper if I feel like it. It would be written in a respectful but not too pious tone. I am not looking for flippant exposé, but rather factual data: the book should explain which church is for and against what (gay sex, priest sex, woman priests, liquor, whatever), both in terms of dogma and of social custom.

"Don't be a jerk"?

mpls2 — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:39:31 -0800

Something about a wise man and fools? I'm looking for a quote that I originally heard from (of all people) Mystery, of "The Game" and VH1 fame. It's something about wise men and fools, and then moral is that stuck up people who think they're better than others are the real fools.

Thanks!

Insert Jewish Pirate Joke Here

ericbop — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:54:16 -0800

Any recommendations for a movie to show my Jewish youth group (grades 8-12), when we meet on Talk Like a Pirate Day? Bonus points if it's either a) Depp-free, and/or b) tangentially related to the themes of the high holidays. I love my job.

Great papers in ethics?

oddman — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:03:48 -0800

I'm looking for paradigmatic ethics papers. Specifically, I'd like papers that are as clear and influential as Singer's "Famine, Affluence, and Morality" and Thomson's "A Defense of Abortion." The papers do not have to be on charity or abortion, in fact, it would be nice to have a paper on some other problem in ethics. Also, I would like the paper to eschew too much theory talk (as the Singer and Thompson papers).

Also, could you offer a brief description and a comment on why you like the paper?

So it's a cult. What now?

finding.perdita — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:52:39 -0800

I think I've accidentally got myself involved in a cult. What should I do? (warning - very long post inside) Step 1 - a friend of mine recommended a Korean-based accupressure treatment for stress. I had some treatments. Worked wonders. £30 a pop - good value. The atmosphere of the centre is lovely - it's very relaxed and everyone is very friendly.

Step 2 - treatments are good, but my practitioner recommended that in order to maintain the benefits, that I start classes. Classes involve a combination of chanting, movements (like tai chi or yoga) and meditation. I signed up. And it's working - I'm less stressed and more able to focus on and work on the issues that make me stressed. Works out at about £6 a class - again, good value. I'm at Step 2 (the steps are divisions I've made up, they're not official divisions of the organisation).

Step 3 - the practitioners are suggesting that in order to get the most benefit from the "energy", I should sign up for advanced training which seems to involve talks and ritual ceremonies. It costs around £4000 for this stage. I was interested, but I have no money at the moment (postgrad studies) and pointed this out to them. They're sympathetic. (I'm no longer interested - see below)

Step 4 - additional advanced training (don't know much about this but it's equally costly)

Step 5 - can become a practitioner, involving additional training in Korea, signing over possessions to the centre, living in the centre and spending all my time as a volunteer giving treatment to both paying customers and those in need (emergency services workers, the homeless, people in old age homes, AIDS patients etc)

So far, so dubious, but the focus on giving back to the community is genuine. And the practitioners are genuinely caring and committed. And there will always be naysayers for any quasi-religious organisation.

BUT - I googled the organisation a couple of weeks ago, and Google threw up a "Organistion X Cult" link, which I followed. Turns out that the couple who started the organisation 30 years ago were jailed in 2000 for a $35 million fraud, for having set up a Doomesday Cult saying that the world was going to end in Feb 2000. Which, clearly, it didn't. The organisation changed its name and kept going with a different focus. The wife has come out of prison and is still running things from Korea. So the organisation that I'm a part of is directly linked to people who set up a Doomesday Cult only a few years ago.

So I've concluded that it's a cult.

Question - what do I do?

I want to keep going to classes. I enjoy being at the centre. Should I keep going or would that be a bad thing?

I believe that most of the practitioners have no idea of the background of the organisation and have joined the cult without realising that it's a cult. I've got to know a couple of them quite well and care about them. Should I make them aware of this? How can I help them? (Can I help them?)

Should I challenge the organisation as a whole about the founders' Doomesday Cult? How should I address this? I accept that if I do this, I'm likely to be asked to not return (in which case, I'll take up Tai Chi and meditation separately!)

Is there anything else I should do? I'm concerned that other people may be sucked in. But I think that the UK brahch is run by the book as a charity and there's probably nothing there that the authorities could work with.

How can I make time slow down?

changeling — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:44:09 -0800

How can I make time slow down? I turn 25 today. And time is passing so quickly, I'm terrified.

I know other people are aware of this; it comes with aging. Maybe our memories condense, like a defragmented drive. I used to feel the fear occasionally -- in the dentist's chair, for example (wasn't I just here? IS THIS PURGATORY?). But for the last year or so, the fear has always been around the edges of my consciousness. Sometimes it comes on so strong I have to force it from my mind to function.

It seems like I'm always going to bed, if that makes any sense. Discovering another day has passed.

Maybe because I'm a writer now and work from home. My days are so routine. It also doesn't help that I write YA fiction, and am always looking back analytically, wistfully. I do notice time slowing when I travel, at least in the middle of the trip (did we really take that bus this morning? seems like two days ago...)

I don't really fear *Sudden Death!* maybe because as humans, we all feel a little invincible. What I fear is increasingly swift aging, and then death. It's not the physical beauty aspect of it, although that doesn't help. It's the fear that the days and nights will keep slamming together more and more quickly. I don't fear unhappiness -- in general, I'm happy. I am just afraid of time. And, if I let thoughts linger a bit longer.... death, and the possibility of nothingness. Re: religion, I'm pretty much agnostic, though I was raised episcopalian. In a nutshell, I have doubts, and then guilt over doubting.

My questions: How do you deal with it? How can I make time slow down? I know you're not magic. I know maybe I should talk to a counselor. But I also know there are mefites of all ages who must not think about this like I do.

I know, I'm only 25. But that's what scares me the most -- if I'm already aware of the acceleration, how fast will the next ten years seem? And the next ten after that?

A friend of mine asked an elderly acquaintance about this same thing. The man's reply: "Son... nowadays, Christmas comes every month." Shit.

Animals on the Ark?

rachelpapers — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:07:50 -0800

Can you point me to a list of animals that were on Noah's Ark? My google skills have failed me. Could you help me find a list of animals that were on Noah's Ark? I'm less interested in those explorations of how Noah's Ark may or may not have been possible, and more interested in just a simple list of what animals the Bible says were on the ark.

Fundamentalist/Evangelical

snap_dragon — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 04:41:19 -0800

What is the difference of belief system between conservative Christianity, evangical Christianity, and fundamentalism?

Religious TV (PBS) Show

Noodles — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:30:18 -0800

I remember a religious question and answer show on PBS during the late 80's and mid 90's concerning Buddhism, I think. The speaker was a woman, only distinct feature was one eye was bigger than the other. If anyone remembers the shows name I would greatly appreciate it.

Look at the birds, they sow not, yet they eat

ChabonJabon — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:04:15 -0800

I believe in God. The strange thing is that God does seem to give me everything I ask for. Even stranger, I don't actually believe that a God can exist. The question: If you are a believer in God, do you notice yourself having your requests consistently answered? I have been an atheist and a firm believer in Science ever since I was young. However, some years back, I came up with a theory as to how God could exist. Basically, I thought that what people called God, was actually some form of my subconsious.

Immediately after that, I would simply call on God whenever I was faced with a situation where I could not consiously deal with. And it seems to work.

Stuff like:

- I need $2500 this month
- I need to find a girlfriend this week
- I need to get extra high scores in my exams
- I don't want to be alone this weekend, I want to do something exciting

What usually happens is that some situation will come up that could lead to any of the results above, and I would take it, and without even remembering that I had made this request, I suddenly find that my request has come true.

Yes, I know it sounds silly, but it really happens to me - consistently and all the time.

I realise that I am somehow influencing myself into taking actions that lead to those situations that I asked for previously.

The question: Am I alone with this? Are there other believers in whatever who also get the same thing? Any atheists who get similar things?

What is the Norwegian Dream?

parmanparman — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:54:06 -0800

Rather than go into the American Dream or the New American Dream, I would like to find out about the real or philosophical "...Dream" of other countries, like what is the New Dutch Dream and the Chinese Dream? Note: don't tell me about sagas! dreams only, please.

Name this philosophy

LittleMissCranky — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:31:13 -0800

Be conservative in your own behavior and liberal in the behavior that you accept from others. Is there a name for this concept? I think that a variation on this statement was originally applied to computer language...does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Help me identify this folk/religious tradition/concept

potch — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:22:36 -0800

Help me identify: possibly Judaic (maybe Yiddish) folk tradition of a very small group of individuals for whom God allows the world exist. The point being there's no way of knowing if any individual is one of those chosen few, thus necessitating kindness and decency to all. Tell me I'm not insane- I could've sworn I read about this on Ask a year or two ago, but my searching just isn't finding it. After an aggravating hour or so of Google/Mefi digging, I'm coming here. It's a completely interesting and intriguing premise that resonates with me for some reason, so identifying would be awesome. I've probably bastardized the concept slightly, and the group to which it belongs, but any help would rule.